The TV IV talk:IVy Awards/2006/Best Guest Actor or Actress in a Comedy Series

The Simpsons

How could we have Guest Actor on a Comedy Series without at least one nomination from The Simpsons? This is one of their trademarks. I feel like these are the best of the lot from this season:

• Ricky Gervais, The Simpsons (17x15 - Homer Simpson, This Is Your Wife) - He might be playing a character similiar to that on The Office, but he fit right in here, as reality-show contestant who switches spouses with Homer and desperately falls in love with Marge. The awkward banter between him and Marge was absolutely hilarious, plus he sings her a song!
• Richard Dean Anderson, The Simpsons (17x17 - Kiss, Kiss Bang Bangalore) - Okay, he plays himself, but who knew that Anderson actually had a lot in common with his famous role of MacGyver? Patti and Selma kidnap him straight from a Stargate SG-1 convention, but he manages to escape—and keeps coming back for more, because of the thrill it gives him. They eventually manage to get rid of Anderson by showing them a few of their amazing adventures. Simply charming, and energetic (plus, Richard Dean Anderson should always on TV somewhere, sometime, he's just so fun to watch).

-- Lampbane 20:43, 11 June 2006 (EDT)

Yikes. The definitions do say that animated series such as The Simpsons are ineligible in this category, so I have to move this to the discussion pages. However, you are right, the guest stars are a trademark of this show, and I think this might be a good candidate for a semi-permanent Special Award. JCaesar 06:25, 12 June 2006 (EDT)

I mean to make a comment about this at some point - basically that there's no way to award anyone who works on an animated show, just the show itself. That's basely unfair. Plus, I personally disagree with categories like "Best Animated Show" if only because it turns into a ghetto that keeps excellent work like Simpsons or The Boondocks from getting any of the "real" awards like Best Comedy (or even Drama, for anime programs).

(Thinking on it, I'd also like to have nominated Samuel L. Jackson for his work as Gin Rummy on Boondocks). -- Lampbane 09:13, 12 June 2006 (EDT)

Yes, you're right, those are all good candidates. However, there is also no way at this time to award actors in mini-series, talk shows or sketch shows, either.

The limitation here, I'd say, isn't in the narrowness of the categories as they exist necessarily, but in the limited number of categories. (That's another reason the Special Awards were created—to expand the number of areas which could be granted awards.) The plan has always been to increase the number of categories if these awards prove successful, and expanding the acting awards in categories besides "Comedy" and "Drama" are the most obvious first expansion. In other words, if these awards work, there will likely be awards for acting in Animated Series and other categories.

As for also expanding the Comedy and Drama categories to include animated Comedies and Dramas, I wouldn't rule that out, either. However I disagree with your characterization of "Best Animated Series" as not being a "real" category. Right now, we only have 20 competitive categories. It's not like the Emmys, which have 80-some-odd categories each year, of which only maybe 25 award people and/or shows you've heard of. I'd say all our categories are "real" categories and not "technical" categories.

All that said, there is no way The Simpsons is going to win in any competitive category, "real" or not, because it hasn't been put up for nomination in the one category in which it is eligible: Best Animated Series. If you want to see it considered even in the category, somebody has to propose it. JCaesar 16:46, 12 June 2006 (EDT)

The reason The Simpsons hasn't been nominated is simply because I (and probably many others) don't feel the show itself is the best. But this argument isn't about the Simpsons, it's about animated shows in general, and there's no good reason why Animated shows should not be eligible for Best Comedy or Best Drama. Now, I'll concede that maybe voice acting is different from regular acting, and thus shouldn't be lumped into the same awards, BUT a good show is still a good show. For most animated shows there's really nothing separating them from live-action programs in terms of basic storytelling. -- Lampbane 17:12, 12 June 2006 (EDT)

No, I concede your point. (You even made my one objection/concern—regarding voice actors—and saved me the trouble of having to do so.) Yeah, it's certainly worth considering. Would you all prefer to see the "Best Animated Series" category eliminated entirely? Or keeping that around and also including animated series in the Comedy / Drama categories? (Also, for the time being, this discussion hasn't taken up pages and pages, so I don't see it's necessary to move it somewhere else. If that ever happens, I will.) JCaesar 17:24, 12 June 2006 (EDT)

I agree with Lampbane, there is no reason to seperate cartoon and live action. There should perhaps be a category for best children's series which encompass many cartoons and many live actions. With the current method, cartoons are excluded from too many awards. --MateoP 16:54, 12 June 2006 (EDT)

"Best Family Series" was one of the earliest proposed categories which was eliminated because we weren't sure there'd be enough interest. (At the time, we had no way of knowing if there would be enough interest in the Awards at all, and judgements were made as to what categories were more likely or less likely to garner interest.) Given the success of this year's awards, it is likely some or all of those categories will be restored next year. JCaesar 17:24, 12 June 2006 (EDT)

I understand exactly why "Best Family Series" would have been a waste of time at this point - we don't even have a page for Sesame Street. Sesame &%*^$#> Street! Until we bulk that part of the site up (I've added a few older kids' shows), this idea is totally back-burner. --- Lampbane 17:32, 12 June 2006 (EDT)

That's not relevant. A show doesn't have to have a page to be nominated, nor do actors. Many of the current nominees for shows and actors don't have pages. There should be a category regardless. It's not a good idea to "guess" how much interest there will be. Just make the category and if people want to add suggestions they will, if they don't then they won't. Depending on individual choices you will see whether there is interest or not. Guessing isn't necessary. --MateoP 19:06, 12 June 2006 (EDT)

Exactly. In fact, we still have our work cut out for us to represent almost all shows that are not episodic comedies or dramas. Even in the Talk/Variety/Sketch categories, while some shows (such as The Daily Show) are highly popular and well-represented on the site, we still have no page for The Tonight Show (neither The Tonight Show Starring Johnny Carson nor The Tonight Show with Jay Leno), which is, I'd say in the minds of the majority of Americans, the premiere talk show. Incidentally, if you don't want to propose The Simpsons for inclusion, our most popular anime series is Avatar: The Last Airbender, which also has yet to be put forth as a contender. (I have no idea if you'd care to, I'm just pointing that out.) JCaesar 17:50, 12 June 2006 (EDT)

The flaw in your cunning plan is that Avatar: The Last Airbender is not an anime series. It's just an animated series with some anime stylings... which I've never actually seen. I have nominated two anime shows though: Fullmetal Alchemist and Samurai Champloo. Both of these had US premiere episodes during the eligibility period. -- Lampbane 18:16, 12 June 2006 (EDT)

Oops. My bad. I'm just trying to encourage as many nominations as possible. :) (And I saw the two nominations you put forth in the Animated Series category, and I sincerely thank you for them. I've already set my TiVo for them, and I'll be checking them out soon.) JCaesar 19:25, 12 June 2006 (EDT)

I think for acting awards voice actors and regular actors should not be put in the same category they are really two different kind of talents just like comedic and dramatic acting, a voice actor category could also include puppets, CG characters on live action shows and narrators who aren't seen on screen (like on Arrested Development or Desperate Housewives). As for Animated shows being elligible for the general categories I don't really see a problem with that. It's probably a good idea to keep them with their own category just so the best of them can be recognized even if there aren't any good enough for the main categories. One thing that might be nice is to have an overall best show category like the Television Critics Association has that any show regardless of content is elligible for.The-jam 17:06, 12 June 2006 (EDT)

Those are all very workable suggestions which should be given serious consideration. JCaesar 17:24, 12 June 2006 (EDT)

I dont think that it makes much sense to split it up just on the basis that it is a different type of acting. If we use that rational, why not split it into method, deadpan, slapstick, improv, etc. as they all require vastly different skill sets. I understand the sentiment but if that were the primary reason certain characters that are located in the drama section belong elsewhere and vice versa. -Philoetus 23:52, 22 June 2006 (EDT)